Untitled Document

Kearney_Gilman ASAT Assessment and Testing Conference March 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 2004 was extended froma 2 day conference - I guess we can type alot?

Subject: OURGIFTED-L digest 120
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:01:14 CST
OURGIFTED-L Digest 120

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) Re: ASAT Thanks and disappointment
by Meredith Warshaw <mwarshaw@uniquelygifted.org>
2) ADMIN: List is back on Moderated Mode
by Sally_L@comcast.net
3) (no subject)
by owner-OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
4) (no subject)
by owner-OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
5) ADMIN - the conference could go on Kathi:)
by Sally_L@comcast.net
6) ADMIN: Good news - Dr. Sally Reis - Talented Females: Obstacles,
Challenges, & Choices
by Sally_L@comcast.net
7) RE: ASAT: regression toward the mean
by "Carolyn & Mark K." <carolyn@thehoagies.com>

Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:12:21 -0500
From: Meredith Warshaw <mwarshaw@uniquelygifted.org>
Subject: Re: ASAT Thanks and disappointment
To: OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
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> I think that there was also a sense of expectation raised in the gifted
> community that the new SB-V would combine the high ceiling of the SB-LM with
the
> wide acceptance of the SB-IV/WISC.

It's been pointed out to me offlist that what I wrote above was not what I meant
to say. I did not mean to say that the SB-V did not have a high ceiling - I
meant to say that there was a sense of expectation that the SB-V, having a high
ceiling, would more frequently provide the wide range of scores found on the
SB-LM.

--
Meredith Warshaw, M.S.S., M.A., mailto:mwarshaw@uniquelygifted.org
Special Needs Educational Advisor, http://uniquelygifted.org

Contributing editor, 2e: Twice-Exceptional Newsletter (http://2enewsletter.com)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you
did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou

Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:17:26 +0000
From: Sally_L@comcast.net
Subject: ADMIN: List is back on Moderated Mode
To: OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
Message-id:

<032420041617.12709.4061B4960007A592000031A52200734830FF91908693D18693939E@comca
st.net>

Hi List Members,
Our Gifted Online Conferences listserv is back on Moderated Mode.

Thank you,
Sally Lyon
List Manager

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From: Kathi Kearney <kkearney@ttlc.net>
To: OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
Subject: Re: ADMIN: List is back on Moderated Mode
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Sally wrote:

> Hi List Members,
> Our Gifted Online Conferences listserv is back on Moderated Mode.>>>>>

So Sally, does this mean we are starting day FIVE of the "two day"
conference?????? I may never sleep again! :-)
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From: RDlouruf@cs.com
To: OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
Subject: Re: knowing the Levels of Giftedness on the SB5
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Dear Stephanie:
Just a quick answer for now. No, not anyone who was tested should
have their score called into question. True PG requires very high abilities
across the board, otherwise the child can still be PG in some areas, and this is
important. I am not the only one, though, who has found this oddity, and I
report it in my forthcoming book (which I will work far into the night after I

finish talking to you). I have found that the parents of kids who might have
gotten the sort of false high score that I am referring to usually start to
question for themselves whether there might have been a mistake. As an irony, I
have retested such children on the SB5 (going backwards, right?) and found they
scored significantly lower, although still highly gifted. I do use the age
equivalencies, so I know that the scores are going to be lower anyway, but I am
talking about the meaning of the scores. For example, some children who
scored around 180 on the SBLM will still score about 142 or so on the SB5 -
virtually the same score range if you allow for the different scales or metrics
between the tests. But a few of the children have scored in the low 130s on the
SB5, and because of the nice subtest system, it is easy to see the weaker areas
and why the composite score is lower. I hope that helps.

> So, anyone who has a child tested as PG by the GDC at age 6/7 should

> question the assessment results? And a 'great conceptual thinker' cannot be PG
> without quantitative reasoning to go with it?
> What do you mean by "didn't seem to follow through with the same intensity
> and interest in everything"? How would you differentiate this from the effect
> on PG children of unremediated/undiagnosed LDs and/or inappropriate
> education?
> For that matter, how do you disentangle 2E PG children from those with
> weaknesses which make them not PG in the SB5 assessment process you described?

I personally disentangle the above questions by the interpretation of the
subtests and what they are telling me. I also use an intake form and past
assessments to guide me. You see, I am not a big fan of gifted programs, but I
want
an approach to meeting different children's different needs. They don't need
to be classified as across-the-board this or that. But they do need to have
their abilities, high and low, recognized so they can get the support they
need.

>
> Confused, and looking forward to clarification!
>
I'll be going into more detail during my own on-line conference this fall.
My book, too, covers all of this in much more detail.

Deborah L. Ruf, PhD
Educational Options
4500 Heathbrooke Circle
Golden Valley, MN 55422
Educational Options

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<HTML><HTML>Dear Stephanie:<B=
R>
       Just a quick answer for now.  No,=20=
not anyone who was tested should have their score called into question.&nbsp=
; True PG requires very high abilities across the board, otherwise the child=
can still be PG in some areas, and this is important.  I am not the on=
ly one, though, who has found this oddity, and I report it in my forthcoming=

book (which I will work far into the night after I finish talking to you).&=
nbsp; I have found that the parents of kids who might have gotten the sort o=
f false high score that I am referring to usually start to question for them=
selves whether there might have been a mistake. As an irony, I have retested=
such children on the SB5 (going backwards, right?) and found they scored si=
gnificantly lower, although still highly gifted.  I do use the age equi=
valencies, so I know that the scores are going to be lower anyway, but I am=20=
talking about the meaning of the scores.  For example, some children wh=
o scored around 180 on the SBLM will still score about 142 or so on the SB5=20=
- virtually the same score range if you allow for the different scales or me=
trics between the tests.  But a few of the children have scored in the=20=
low 130s on the SB5, and because of the nice subtest system, it is easy to s=

ee the weaker areas and why the composite score is lower.  I hope that=20=
helps. 
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">So, anyone who has a child test=
ed as PG by the GDC at age 6/7 should question the assessment results? And a=
'great conceptual thinker' cannot be PG without quantitative reasoning to g=
o with it? 
What do you mean by "didn't seem to follow through with the same intensity=

and interest in everything"? How would you differentiate this from the effe=
ct on PG children of unremediated/undiagnosed LDs and/or inappropriate educa=
tion? 
For that matter, how do you disentangle 2E PG children from those with wea=
knesses which make them not PG in the SB5 assessment process you described?<=
/FONT>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally disentangle the above questions by the interpretation of the=20=
subtests and what they are telling me.  I also use an intake form and p=
ast assessments to guide me.  You see, I am not a big fan of gifted pro=
grams, but I want an approach to meeting different children's different need=
s.  They don't need to be classified as across-the-board this or that.&=
nbsp; But they do need to have their abilities, high and low, recognized so=20=
they can get the support they need.

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">  
Confused, and looking forward to clarification! 
</BLOCKQUOTE> 
I'll be going into more detail during my own on-line conference this fall.&=
nbsp; My book, too, covers all of this in much more detail.

Deborah L. Ruf, PhD 
Educational Options 
4500 Heathbrooke Circle 
Golden Valley, MN 55422 
<A HREF=3D"www.educationaloptions.com">Educational Options</A> 
</HTML>
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:41:33 +0000
From: Sally_L@comcast.net
Subject: ADMIN - the conference could go on Kathi:)
To: Ourgifted-L@neiu.edu
Message-id:

<032520040241.16592.406246DD00092051000040D02200761438FF91908693D18693939E@comca
st.net>

List Members,
Kathi wants to know if the 2 day conference is going to be a 5 day conference,
since I reconfigured the list to a moderated mode again. My you are so
perceptive and picked up correctly concerning the major silent hint hint hint
LOL

The audience is applausing and giving a standing ovation for both of you !!!

No, Kathi, we will let you take a rest along with Bobbie, catch a movie and a
dinner out on the town.

Hmmmmm, can a conference coordinator order the guest experts to do the above?
LOL Well, if not You both are strongly encouraged to do so.

I am still in awe and still applauding and giving thanks to not only the guest
experts but list members, plus the additional experts like Deborah Ruf and Drew
Carlson who so kindly shared their expertise as well.

Sally_L - hearing complaints from my family that their mother who is back on the
computer when she declared the two day conference was really over, has totally
turned into a ----- okay I will not publically share family comments. LOL NO NO
the conference is not continuing.

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:57:32 +0000
From: Sally_L@comcast.net
Subject: ADMIN: Good news - Dr. Sally Reis - Talented Females: Obstacles,
Challenges, & Choices
To: Ourgifted-l@neiu.edu
Message-id:

<032520040257.14693.40624A9C0005868D000039652200761438FF91908693D18693939E@comca
st.net>

Dear List Members,

I have good news to share about the next conference in April:)

It is my pleasure to announce that Dr. Sally Reis will be our next guest expert
on Our Gifted Online Conferences and the topic is as follows:

Talented Females: Obstacles, Challenges, & Choices

What kinds of decisions do talented females make? At which stages during
one's lifetime are these decisions made? How can parents and teachers help
develop gifts and eliminate obstacles in young girls? These and other
questions, as well as possible solutions, will be explored in this session.

Her Bio is as follows:

Sally Reis Ph.D.

Dr. Reis recieved her B.A. from Chatham College, her M.S. from Southern
Connecticut State College and her Ph.D from the University of Connecticut. She
joined the University of Connecticut in 1980. Dr. Reis is a Professor and the
Department head of the Educational Psychology Department in the Neag School of
Education at the University of Connecticut where she also serves as Principal
Investigator of the National Research Center on the Gifted and Talented. She was
a classroom teacher in public education as well as an administrator before
coming to the University of Connecticut. She has authored more than 130
articles, 11 books, 40 book chapters, and numerous monographs and technical
reports, and worked in a research team that has generated over 35 million
dollars in grants in the last 15 years.

Her research interests are related to development in all children as well as
special population of gifted and talented students, including: studetns with
learning disabilities, gifted females and diverse groups of talented students
who are often underserved. She is the co-author of The Schoolwide Enrichment
Model, The Secondary Triad Model, Dilemmas in Talent Development in the Middle
Years and a book published in 1998 about women's talent development entitled
Work Left Undone: Choices and Compromises of Talented Females. Sally is the past
President of the National Association for Gifted Children. she has won several
professional awards including the Distinguished Service Award for outstanding
service by the National Association for Gifted Children and most recently, she
was named the Distinguished Scholar by the National Association for Gifted
Children, for her scholarly contributions.

Sally M. Reis, Ph.D.
Professor and Department Head
Department of Educational Psychology
University of Connecticut
2131 Hillside Road Unit 3007
Storrs, CT 06269-3007

Please check the website for updated information at www.neiu.edu/~ourgift
I will also send out future announcements concerning the beginning and ending
day in April and pre-conference reading materials.

Kindest regards,
Sally_L
Conference Coordinator
List Manager
www.neiu.edu/~ourgift

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:24:42 -0500
From: "Carolyn & Mark K." <carolyn@thehoagies.com>
Subject: RE: ASAT: regression toward the mean
To: OURGIFTED-L@neiu.edu
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Thanks, Drew, I do understand now - finally - it only took three people,
several websites, and finally your cogent application to my particular
situation... but I think I understand.

And thanks, all, for a VERY enlightening conference!

Carolyn K. carolyn{at}thehoagies.com
Hoagies' Kids and Teens Page http://www.hoagieskids.org
Hoagies' Gifted Education Page http://www.hoagiesgifted.org